Did God create everything in 6 days?

As a believer I can appreciate the great faith that every Christian puts in the Bible and the belief that the wisdom therein, exposed by the prophets, was received directly from God. Actually, if one does believe that the purpose of the Holy Scripture is to guide nations, one would like to think that God would not allow any errors to creep into it.

However, the argument whether God created everything in six days is a great divide between the faith and science. We think that one of these viewpoints must be wrong; we just can’t agree (outside of our own trenches) which one is it. Does the problem lie in the literal reading of the Bible or is something wrong with the scientific methods of dating archaeological artefacts?

But what if both of these viewpoints are right? If we could assume that the “day of creation” mentioned in Genesis refers to God’s (working) day and not man’s, would it be easier to find the common ground between the two?

When we look into Genesis 1:5 (King James Version, KJV) we will find that the words ‘Day’ and ‘Night’ are capitalized. It can’t be an indication that God spoke them into existence because this paragraph talks about God giving names to certain phenomena after it already occurred. Was this done in order to distinguish them from what we name as ‘day’ (the period of earth day when there is visible light) and ‘night’ (the period of the same characterized with the absence of the visible light); which are actually created (God spoke them into existence) later on the 4th Day (see Genesis 1:14-19)? If the visible light (from the stars) was created on the fourth Day, what kind of light was created on the first Day?

It is also clear that on the first Day the earth was “without form and void” (see Genesis 1:2). The words “without form” are translation of the Hebrew word ‘tohuw’, which is in KJV also translated as ‘nothing’ and ‘empty space’. This really tells us that the earth did not physically exit yet—it was just an idea in God’s mind. Our creative process also follows this same pattern: we first think about something and then we do practical steps to actually bring it into existence. We are created in God’s image (Genesis 1:27), so we follow His example.

Man lives on the earth and measures his day as one complete revolution of this planet around its axis. So, let us use an analogy to “calculate” the length of God’s Day. From religion we know that God is omnipresent and lives everywhere throughout His creation. The new theory, “The Geometric Concept of Matter” confirms that He is everywhere and everything in the creation, but also that He exists even outside of the creation, because He is the substance out of which everything is created. But, because outside of the creation, space and time do not exist (and that is why we say that God is eternal), let us limit our observation inside the creation, and also to its part which is visible to our sensors – the universe.

The above-mentioned analogy would be very simple if the universe would be rotating around its axis, but it is more likely that the universe lives “in a heartbeat”; a cycle that consists of the expansion which is followed by the contraction. Actually, cosmologists contemplate various scenarios for the end of the universe, but for the sake of the argument, let us assume that the universe will ultimately contract. Thus, we could hypothesize that the length of God’s Day does equal in length to the time it takes the universe to expand plus the time it takes it to implode back to its origin (for more information see the Big Bang theory).

So, let us hypothesize something here – the ‘Day’ and ‘Night’ in Genesis refer to a one complete creation cycle, where at the beginning of the Day creation is reborn (i.e. in the morning), then it exists for a while and when the evening comes it is destroyed. During the ‘Night’ the whole creation doesn’t physically exist but exists only as an idea in God’s mind.

We know that other religions have such a concept. For example, Hinduism has the concept of a “Day of Brahma”, a “Night of Brahma” as well as the concept of the morning and the evening. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna “At the dawn of Brahma’s Day all creation, reborn, emerges from the state of nonmanifestation; at the dusk of Brahma’s Night all creation sinks into the sleep of nonmanifestation.” (BG, VIII:18).

But we want to see if the Bible gives some evidence for such an unorthodox theory. Other religious texts may contain some truths, but it’s usually mixed with a lot of unbiblical concepts. For example, all religions would tell you that you have to work hard and perfect yourself in order to earn salvation and your place in eternity with God, but the Bible tells us that God extended His love towards us while we were yet sinners and our salvation was paid by what Jesus did on the cross, so it’s a free gift (see Romans 5:6-10).

You don’t have to earn God’s love, because He loves you already. Jesus said “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” (Matthew 11:28-30). This is so opposite to “you must earn your salvation; you must work hard to please God,” which other religions proclaim.

When you know that all people and their religions spawned from Noah’s descendants, it is understandable that there are some similarities between them. But the revelation of the caring Heavenly Father is given only in the Bible. So, our goal is to check this unorthodox idea against the Bible, which is the Word of God and is the only source of the complete truth.

Ok, let’s continue. In Genesis 2:4 it says: “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.” Wait a minute! Generations? These verses follow the account of how God created everything in 6 Days. So, why would they talk about ‘generations’ if everything happened within six 24-hour days?

Is this some kind of an error in translation? The Hebrew word ‘towlĕdah’, is in KJV translated as ‘generations’ 38 times and once as ‘birth’. It’s used in the Bible to talk about descendants, generations and genealogies. Hence, we are really talking about the generations of the heavens and the earth. This implies that each heaven and earth were completely new incarnations, given a new birth with every new Day. To talk about generations means to talk about grandparents, parents, children, and so on. Consequently, we are talking about longer passages of time. Therefore, if we identify God’s Day as the time when particular incarnation of the heavens and the earth exists, then it means that such a Day coincides with the existence of the creation. We can easily conclude that the length of such a Day is not just 24 hours.

So, what is Moses telling us in Genesis? Is he saying that within the first creation cycle God created a blueprint of the creation (in His Mind) and that He worked out how to go about manifesting it by creating the ‘light’, which by that definition needs to be a creative force that brings everything else into existence? Can we find in the Scripture a passage where ‘light’ is described as the source of life itself?

Yes, we can. Have a look at John 1:1-5, it says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”

Within those verses, where John describes Jesus as the Creator, the creative Word, which created everything; we find that light is actually the very life of men. Without this light there would not be any life. In other words, God can play with the ideas in His mind, and they would float like little bubbles in Him, but unless He would shine on them with His light, they would not have life. The light is the mechanism by which God’s ideas come to life and have their separate existence in Him. “For in him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28).

We are objects of His love, and all things, the whole creation was created for His pleasure (see Revelation 4:11). If we are just ideas in His mind, we cannot respond, we cannot love back. If we are just puppets, without free will, our response is not genuine, it is automatic. The only love that He wants to receive back is the love that is freely given, the love we choose to give. But remember that God doesn’t need our love to be happy, because He is love itself (see 1 John 4:8), so what is this telling us? God is a God of relationships; He wants to have a relationship with the beings (this includes you!) He has created.

When we feel love we feel God. When we give love back to God we are actually returning His own to Him, acknowledging that we need Him and that we want that relationship to grow. Here is another difference between Christianity (with its Jewish roots) and other religions. Other religions teach that you have to clean your life with good deeds and become perfect in order to have any kind of a relationship with God. The truth is totally different—God loves us unconditionally and we just have to come to Him, confess that we can’t do it on our own, and He will make us clean just for the asking: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

So, what happened on the second Day, what did God create then? On that Day, God went about organizing His creation into sections and He also created a divider between them so they are kept separate. There are three sections: ‘top’, ‘bottom’ and middle. The middle section, which God named the Heaven, divides the top from the bottom section: “And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day” (Genesis 1:6-8).

Have you ever wondered which substance did God use to create everything? Which substance existed before creation was created? What could be the only possible substance that everything is made of? The answer is: God, as God is the only one that existed before everything else. God is the “universal substance” that God (the Word) used to build every object in the universe. Due to this, God is omnipresent throughout the whole creation, but also, it can be said that He is everything; every created object and every created being and also the intelligence behind it.

When Bible talks about the ‘waters’ above and below the firmament, it indicates that there is pretty much the same “stuff” everywhere—‘waters’. We have to remember that these waters were created on the first Day, as a monolith mass of “water”, and on the second Day God is not changing their essence, but is just organising them a little bit.

It’s interesting to examine the Hebrew word ‘mayim’, which is translated as ‘waters’. It literally means ‘juice’ and it could be also used to indicate ‘semen’. Also, the same word is in KJV translated as ‘watersprings’ and ‘waterflood’, which when applied to the context of Genesis, would indicate that these ‘waters’ are in flux, are moving and have their source in God. So, ‘waters’ are really “creative juices” which are essentially God’s ideas given life and separate existence.

Coming back to the creation cycles, on the third Day, God wanted to do something more with the creative juices (waters) beneath the heaven. He caused them to form into matter as we know it today: “And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good “ (Genesis 1:9-10).

Notice that waters ‘gathered’ both to form the ‘dry land’ as well as the ‘seas’. Hebrew word ‘qavah’ that is translated as “be gathered together” means to bind together, to collect, but it also literally means ‘to expect’- i.e. gather together, patiently wait and look for the formation of something. Could you better describe, with one word, the process of the whole universe slowly being formed, by binding the creative juices and collecting them together to form celestial bodies and the space between them? And with that same word also not fail to mention the caring eye of the Almighty Creator patiently waiting for the earth to form and become perfect to carry life as we know it?

Can you see your Heavenly Father watching over the process, tweaking and fine-tuning the cosmic parameters so that life will be possible? Here is another article, containing also the probabilities for the discussed life-sustaining parameters. It talks about the incredible design of the earth and its solar system. This patient work of the Creator is another factor that leads us to believe that His Day runs much longer than 24 hours.

During the same (third) Day God spoke “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so (Genesis 1:11). Previously barren earth was covered with vegetation. But the water cycle as we know it today was not yet established. Genesis 2:5-6 says that before man was created (on the sixth Day) rain didn’t fall, “but there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

One question arises, did all of that vegetation appear instantly upon God’s command or did it slowly “evolve”? The story of creation, as Moses tells it, describes what God did in each cycle of creation and wraps it up with “and the morning and the evening were” so and so Day, giving us an indication of the time period during which things happened. This gives us a very good ground to assume that God was constantly busy, continuously changing His creation throughout the Day to bring it to the desired state, after which He “saw that it was good “.

Also, at each creation cycle He added something completely new and He was happy about it. So what would we see if we stood aside as observers during this period when God was conceptualizing this creation? Would we see that things were constantly changing (“evolving”) and would we see that they even “evolved” from cycle to cycle until the 7th day; when God decided that the structure of His hobby is perfect and that no new concepts are necessary?

Even though this universe might give us an impression that everything “evolved” by itself, we should not be fooled into such thinking. Especially after we understand that God is patiently using natural laws to bring about any desired change. Modern science, and information theory in particular, gives us a definite proof that evolution is simply impossible.

A good article that explains the nature of information, which is a separate entity from matter and energy, could be found here. Basically, the initial information that was coded into the very first DNA had to come from somewhere. Code in general (and DNA is a sophisticated code!) doesn’t occur spontaneously in nature. It always points to the mind that created it. In this case DNA code points to the Creator, and that’s the end of the evolution debate.

The universe on the third Day was not exactly the same as we know it today, because the stars were not yet present (i.e. they were formed on the fourth Day). Does this mean that the whole universe was in darkness or was there some kind of a perennial aurora light spreading everywhere? In any case, the universe was full of primordial planets and on the earth we could find some kind of grass, herbs and trees growing.

In regards to the fourth creation cycle Moses tells us that God wanted to make the universe more dynamic. On the fourth Day He created heavenly luminaries and threw them into motion. Planets also started to move around stars, so day, night and seasons occurred, thus providing more changeable environment and infinitely more interesting one (see Genesis 1:14-19).

Does this mean that the planets in the previous creation cycle were static? Perhaps they were, and perhaps we should also assume that the concept of the universe in constant motion, as we know it today, was worked out in the fourth creation cycle. Again the question is, did God hang all the stars and planets into their places instantly or did that come about slowly through the application of laws of motion and interaction? Like in the case with the previous Days, one would like to think that this was a slow process guided by God through His laws.

On the fifth Day, God created creatures of the sea and the birds. In the next creation cycle, He created land animals. All these animals, like plants before them, had the ability to procreate and produce offspring “after their kind ”. But there was nothing in this creation that would be in the likeness of Him, so on the sixth Day God created man “in His own image” (Genesis 1:26-27). This new being was to subdue the material creation and have dominion over other creatures (Genesis 1:28) and thus become an extension of God’s will in the creation.

After the account of creation at the beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 2 and the following chapters we read the story of Adam and Eve and how they were disobedient to God and consequently lost their immortality and were expelled from the Garden of Eden. The devil tempted them and they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, even though God told Adam not to do that or otherwise he would die.

Now, the interesting question is: “Why did God even made that tree available in the Garden?” Some people say it was to give choice to Adam and Eve. Because God gave man free will, this was something that man could choose to be disobedient about. Really? Making that choice meant certain death, as God said, so would someone in his or her right mind ever choose such a thing? I don’t think so.

So, what then? The story in Genesis 3:1-5 goes like this: “Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”

With these statements Satan (the devil, the “serpent of old”) slandered God and implicated that He is really not a good God and that He wanted to keep Adam and Eve subdued, not becoming like Him. The implication was that He was withholding something from Adam and Eve, which was the real reason why He has made the rule about not eating from that tree. Satan was projecting his own feelings about the Father God and I think this is the real reason why that tree was planted in the Garden. The tree was there to flush out Satan’s jealousy and hatred against God.

In the story of creation heaven was created before the earth and man. Consequently, angels were created before men. Scripture teaches us that Satan was one of the high angels and that he desired to be worshiped the same way Father God is (see Isaiah 14:12-15). But this jealousy and hatred were hidden until he maligned God to Adam and Eve. Omniscient God was obviously aware of the feelings Satan had, but there was nothing in the creation that would bring them out and make them public (so they could be judged).

Man was created to be in a love relationship with God, similar to the one angels have. That stirred Satan’s jealousy and ambition even more. When he tempted Adam and Eve by slandering God, his lack of love for God was revealed. As Adam and Eve failed the obedience test, Satan failed the love test. From that point forward it’s only a downward spiral for him. In Revelation 12:7-9 we read that Satan and his angels are removed from the heaven and cast down to earth. In Revelation 20:1-3 Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit and locked up for a 1000 years. And in Revelation 20:10 he is cast into the lake of fire, which is his final destination. Similarly, all that served Satan and chose to reject God who gives life, consequently chose the opposite of life—death, and will be also thrown into the lake of fire, together with death and hell itself (see Revelation 20:11-15).

The Bible says that man will judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:3). In other words man will witness against angels that worked evil towards him. Man is an instrument of God’s judgement on the invisible realms of the creation. God created man to rule the earth, but when man fell he was actually given even a more important role—to be an active participant in God’s plan of the redemption of not just the earth but also the whole creation. God said to Satan: “I will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed [Jesus]; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” (Genesis 3:15, brackets mine).

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) and we should do the same. All this opposition from the devil and our struggle to endure devil’s temptations has a purpose—to create condemning evidence against Satan and his supporters. Remember that God is not the author and creator of evil. Evil is anchored on lies, which are a complete opposite of truth, which is anchored and found only in the loving and life-giving Creator. Evil is devil’s doing (see James 1:13-17) because he is the father of all lies (see John 8:44).

So, if you are in Christ you are fully equipped to withstand all the wiles of the devil. Our weapons are mighty (2 Corinthians 10:4) and we battle not against flesh but against spiritual forces (Ephesians 6:12). God is for us so who can be against us (Romans 8:31)? It’s not that God had created us and then abandoned and left us stranded, so that we are now helplessly tossed by life to and fro (as some religions would like to teach you).

No, God created us to rule with Him and when the mankind fell, God gave it even a bigger role. Don’t you know that we are co-creators and fellow workers with God (1 Corinthians 3:9)? So, awake to Father’s love, put on the full armour of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) and destroy the works of the devil!

Friend, if you are reading this it means you are on a journey and you would like to discover the truth. Like you, I was once looking for Truth and after a long search I’ve found Him. Or should I say Jesus found me? Friend, time for long searches is up. Every religious tradition speaks of the future end times, and the funny thing is that the end has to come someday. And the Bible is very detailed when it comes to the end time prophecy.

We are living in time that prophets spoke about. The world doesn’t have much more time. I’ve laid out some Bible prophecies in here, and according to the several signs we are at the very end. The time is near when Jesus will come back and you will have to face Him. Will it be on the good terms or bad terms? If you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you can be sure it will be on good terms.

If you want to become a disciple of Jesus (i.e. make Him your Lord) and you want to be sure of your salvation (i.e. get eternal life as a free gift) simply say the following words and mean them:

Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. Come into my heart, I make you my Lord and Savior.

Tags: MosesGenesisGodcreationevolutionreligion

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Responses

  1. Lots of of folks blog about this topic but you wrote down really true words!!

  2. Thanks! Some say that the good God does not know evil, because if He did it is certain that He would immediately put an end to it. However, in the line with the above discussion we can draw two conclusions. If we take a standpoint that everything is made out of the single substance, God, it is clear that He is the only doer, as Isaiah informs us; but if we look at it from the perspective that God gave Satan an independent will, then it is clear that there is no evil in the All-Perfect God. Evil is devil’s doing for he “was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44)…

    • For 55 years of my life I paid very little attention to religion, although I was required to attend Sunday School in the United Church of Canada. Many of the stories from the bible seemed quite silly and the connection between the story and implication for my life, obscure. The Ark Story struck me not in any positive way, rather, it struck me as a story that underscored a savage and desperate god who would incur death and destruction over earning respect and trust through the establishment and development of caring societies. Other bible instructions struck me as barbaric. It was very easy for any thinking child to dismiss the bible as a credible source of information that could guide one’s behaviours and decisions. The fact that so many citizens in North America accept the bible’s version of our origin leaves me dumbfounded. Even more astounding is the high number of so-called educated people in both the creationist’s and spirit-driven evolution camps. As I travel the world and see the empty churches throughout Europe and I see the temples in Vietnam, China, Japan and Korea populated mostly by the poorer segments of their societies, I do not understand why so many North Americans hold these views in absence of otherwise rational thought processes. So, when it comes to the biblical version of how humans, earth and the sun came to be, I am mystified that the story is accepted by so many. It is simply so implausible. When I meet someone who holds the creation story as correct, I distrust their ability to think clearly and “normally”…. yes, normally. If these people graduated from high school, they should have had the thinking ability to dismiss religious mythology along with Greek mythology. The bible is a book of acceptable and repugnant stories and instructions. In my opinion, the repugnant ones are far too prevalent and undermine the bible’s credibility as a source of positive guidance for everything in one’s life. There are so many better philosophies or approaches to living than outlined in the bible. The creation story is pure mythology and quite frankly, bad mythology at best.

      M.

      • Life’s funny. Some get to be born in an atheist environment and are raised to be atheists (like me), but then dismiss that philosophy as nonsensical and without value to become born-again Christians (again like me).

        And some were raised to become Christians and end up being practical atheists disillusioned with “angry” and “blood-thirsty” Father (who “eats His children for breakfast”) and are equally (if not more) disgusted with over-zealous Christians who preach such God and shout against sinfulness in everybody else’s life but fail to remove it from their own…

        Well, if God would be like that, then i would agree with you and join (or better say still be in) your camp. But my personal experience of God is different. I know that He loves me and cares for me. Father God helps me and provides me with His resources, simply because i’m His child. Father God, bless M with the same experience, in the name of Jesus.

  3. I would like to thank all that sent me their best wishes and gave their nod for the content, however their comments did not make it onto this page because they were marked as spam by WordPress.

    Sorry folks, but as a rule, all these are deleted automatically, except in the case that they contain a genuine comment, question or I could use them to highlight a point that I want to make. In such cases I publish the comments but stripped of all hyperlinks.

  4. All along I have been trying to understand issues to do with the unkown when it comes to spirituality. I am thankful that in my attemp to have a balanced life that includes preparing my soul as a christian to have come accross this site. I am currently doing my confirmation class (33yr after my baptism) and this site has proved very helpful in so many ways in my quest to improve the spiritual aspect of my life. Thanks be to Him who guided me here.

    Geoffrey Agoi (Uganda).

  5. All thanks to Him, because He is the only doer.

  6. my God, i thought you were going to chip in with some decisive insght at the end there, not leave it with ‘we leave it to you to decide’.

  7. I’ve updated the text… I hope it’s more clear now.

  8. Best you should change the blog subject title Did God create everything in 6 days? About Science, Religion and Life to something more generic for your content you make. I enjoyed the the writing all the same.

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    • Thank you 🙂

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    • Sorry, but your comment was classified as spam by the Akismet (http://akismet.com/) service. As a rule such comments (especially if ‘By’ doesn’t contain real person’s name) are almost automatically deleted.

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      Thank you for your support. God Bless!

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  21. this is very beatutiful share.. thank you for your shares..

  22. This explains with science how god created the earth in 6 days.

    • Nice try. The video contains the hypothesis that “God moves very slow,” which would nicely explain that the length of God’s day is say 2 billion earthly years. As the current estimate for the age of the universe is 13 billion years, this would nicely explain the 7 days of creation as mentioned in the Bible.

      However, I see these problems with the above-given hypothesis:

      1) By definition God is omnipresent – He lives everywhere at the same time. Therefore, His experience of time is not isolated to a particular higher dimension where everything happens slowly. On the contrary, He is experiencing time differently depending on the location He concentrates His focus on.

      So how do you clearly define the length of God’s day, when time progresses differently at various points in the universe, and God is simultaneously present at each of those points?

      2) By definition God is formless and eternal – He lives outside of the space-time continuum. However, as He created everything by using Himself as the substance (see https://holyscience.wordpress.com/in-the-beginning-was-the-vibration/) He is also omnipresent inside the space-time continuum. Inside the universe, God is not manifesting as Himself, but is disguised as (hidden behind) the created things.

      So, how do you define a period of time as a “day” in God’s life if He, being outside of the space-time, is able to simultaneously experience all time; past, present and future? The answer is in Genesis 2:4. It talks about “the generations of the heavens and of the earth.” On each day of creation, God created a new generation (version) of the whole universe. As grandparents are the first generation, parents the second and children are the third generation of people, so each generation of the heavens and the earth (and their container – the universe) was created anew at the beginning of each new day of creation. The “Day” then does indeed refer to God’s working day, but the length of the same equals to the lifespan of the universe (and is much bigger than 2 or 13 billions of years).

      It is also interesting to note that in each cycle of creation (i.e. a Day) God made some changes to the heavens and the earth. Moses tells us that God stopped tweaking the universe after He devised a perfect template on the 6th day and that He is using that same template ever since… More detailed discussion can be found in the book entitled “Whence Do We Come?“. Download free PDF copy of the second revision at: https://holyscience.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/whence-do-we-come3.pdf.

  23. I really like your writing style, great info, thanks for posting :D. “You can complain because roses have thorns, or you can rejoice because thorns have roses.” by Ziggy.

  24. The whole problem is that god failed to create a bible ( or hundreds, thousands or millions of bibles) rather than leaving it for the “fallen man” !!
    Surely that would have prevented man arguing, interpreting, doubting the gods “words”??

  25. 6 months or more gone, no reply? Not even by Nito?

    • Thanks for the reminder. 🙂

      Where is your proof that God did not create the Bible?

      On the contrary, below is a concise and verifiable discourse that gives evidence that the Author of the Bible is God. Even though Bible is comprised of 66 books, penned by over 40 different writers over several thousand years, it has an integrated design (mathematically provable), which points to its transcendental origin.

      PS: Belittling God might be popular at the moment, but will be proven unprofitable.

  26. Well, when I said “god failed to create a bible” I meant literally god did not create a ( or millions of) bible/s, and left the “fallen” man to do it. Wasn’t god aware that there will be different “books” (old, new testaments, koran, hindu scriptures etc) written by the “fallen” man claiming to be god’s “words”?

    Why did god wait a couple of thousand years to utter the “words” to Moses? With all the unlimited powers and intelligence god could have easily created a bible for Adam and Eve when they were created, rather than creating the tree of knowledge of “good” and “evil” (Why both good and evil together? After all light and darkness was easily separated?) to set a trap to the poor couple and ironically watched impotently Satan ( another fallen creation ) deceiving them !!
    Everything popint to a sinister hidden agenda.

    There is hardly any “profit” to gain by believing in such a god.

    • You wouldn’t be able to ponder like that if God didn’t give you free will. Because God gave everything He created free will, you are able to have such thoughts about God if you want to; He is not going to automatically strike you with a lightning bolt or something for doing so. This mercy is equally available to all “fallen” men as well fallen angels (i.e. satan and his own). However, be aware of the WYCWYG principle – What You Choose is What You Get.

      Adam & Eve didn’t need the written Word of God, because they were able to commune with Him one-on-one whenever they wanted, and ask about anything they wanted. Why would you need the Book when you have the Author with you?

      J, there are two modes of approaching God; a) through the law (rules), which was pretty much given by every major religion or b) through grace that is given through Jesus Christ.

      If you choose the law you are working towards your salvation, and you may or may not earn it based on your performance. Approaching God through the law applies to everyone that has not chosen the path of grace. This includes atheists, agnostics and even Christians that think that God’s grace is not available (to them).

      If you choose the path of grace you are already granted the salvation and you are not working to earn it, but because you want to tell others the good news. And the good news is that God loves everyone and salvation is freely available for those who ask for it.

      J, I think you should forgive your earthly father for your strict upbringing and training, because I think he meant only the best by it. These things are usually passed from a father to a son, so he probably learned it from his father. I think that when he had been a perfectionist, a stern taskmaster and when he failed to reward you for doing things properly, he just wanted to prepare you for a success in a “hard” world, where friends are rare and misfortune and disappointments abound.

      By doing so he wanted to make you strong and courageous; and you must admit that he has done a good job. But, you see J, your father’s path is that of the law, but yours doesn’t have to be. You can choose an easier path of grace; it’s freely available and you just have to ask God to give it to you. If you want to receive it say this simple prayer:

      Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. Come into my heart, I make you my Lord and Savior.

      God Bless.

  27. “there are two modes of approaching God”

    Well, there is another. By logical and scientific reasoning.

    For example, if god is merciful, why the whole mankind was programmed to suffer just because god’s supreme creation could not exercise the “free will” infused in them by god, properly? On the other hand if this free will is REALLY FREE, then there cannot be any conditions attached.

    Also an unanswered question is the creation of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Why? Quite illogical, isn’t it?

    “These things are usually passed from a father to a son”

    In that case, logically, the ultimate culprit is god itself! Funny, that I have to forgive god!

    “Adam & Eve didn’t need the written Word of God, because they were able to commune with Him one-on-one whenever they wanted, and ask about anything they wanted.”

    But what about the billions of humans now? There is no “one-to-one commune” opportunities with god, while on the other hand there are different religions prospering in the world. Why allow them? Even in the case of the bible, there are different versions. Why cannot god simply destroy the incorrect versions?

    • Science studies phenomena and everything outside of time and space is unreachable to science. God, by definition is outside of time and space; God is the Noumenon which creates phenomena.

      So, you would like to do what you want in God’s creation, with no conditions attached and without any consequences? Like, blast the Moon out of its orbit if you desire so? You cannot do what you want in your own country – there are laws that make sure that basic order and harmony are established and preserved. Similarly, God’s laws make sure that order is preserved at all levels, and they exist for our own protection.

      Now, you keep on blaming God for what satan did and is still doing. Devil “was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44).

      You would like to have an absolute free will; try to drink 10 liters of hard liquor at once and you will surely die. There is no such thing as “do what you like with no strings attached” – whosoever tells you that is of the devil and is trying to manipulate you.

      If you really want to be free select any of your bad habits and try to get rid of it. If you can do that you will be one step closer to the real freedom you are looking for.

      Man’s body is the garden. Tree of the knowledge of duality (good and evil, life and death, pleasure and sorrow etc.) is in the middle of the garden. Which body part is in the middle of man’s body?

      Tell me, if God created you as an immortal being, living in an unbroken stream of joy and ever-new bliss, how could you ever know sorrow? How could you know what death is, or what evil is if you are anchored in God who is eternal love (1 John 4:8)? Could you “escape” Love if you are constantly living in it and you are surrounded by it?

      Technically you can’t (because God is omnipresent), but in your own perception you can. You can choose to close your eyes and pretend that you cannot see the daylight, but Sun is still shinning. Similarly, by their own free choice Adam and Eve chose to close their eyes.

      God told them, “Guys, I’ve created you as immortal beings and I want you to rule the universe. However, I had to put you in some kind of a body to place you here on Earth. I didn’t want you to look like alien freaks, so I blended you in, and I gave you a body that is similar to those of the most advanced earthly animals, but nevertheless I’ve packed in much more features than they would ever have. For example, here is this wonderful broadcasting station called cortex that you can use to talk to Me any time you wish or need something.

      “However, those dormant and undeveloped sexual organs in the middle of your bodies (that other animals need to use to propagate their species) you must not use as I gave you the power to procreate by just wishing for it (i.e. by using the same creative power that I have). Otherwise, if you use them, they will start developing and your energies will focus downwards. Consequently your consciousness level will drop and our connection will be severed.”

      Yes, you have to “forgive” God. Actually, you have to realize that over the years mankind somehow got the wrong perception about God. As if God is a bad guy, who allows this or that to happen, and satan gets the benefit of non-mention, while he is the only one to blame for all evil. Satan is misusing the free will God gave everybody to wreck havoc in peoples lives and then point the finger of blame on God and other people.

      You have to realize that God is always good and satan is always bad.

      If you really want to know the truth why don’t you ask God to show it to you? He will. And don’t worry about the different versions of the Bible, ask God to write the right version in your heart.

  28. “Science studies phenomena and everything outside of time and space is unreachable to science. God, by definition is outside of time and space; God is the Noumenon which creates phenomena.”
    In the absence of reliable evidence that there is anything outside time, space and matter/energy, it is only an imaginary assumption by ignorant humans that there is a god. This behaviour allows humans to believe anything they want, in addition to “Christian” god – different gods eg; allah for Muslims, various types of gods, for Hindus and for thousands of different tribes all over the world. On the other hand, if a single god created time, space, matter/energy, then he/she/it is absolutely responsible/answerable/liable for EVERYTHING happening in this Universe, GOOD, BAD and UGLY.

    “Now, you keep on blaming God for what satan did and is still doing. Devil “was a murderer from the beginning,…….”
    Obviously! After all, it was god who created Lucifer/Devil. Why can’t god accept the consequence of his bad design/judgement and simply use his powers to eliminate devil ? Simple isn’t it?
    “Man’s body is the garden. Tree of the knowledge of duality (good and evil, life and death, pleasure and sorrow etc.) is in the middle of the garden. Which body part is in the middle of man’s body?”

    The question remains the same. Why did god create man’s body like that? Why did “that” body part was designed in such a way? Why couldn’t god restrict “that” part ONLY for the “other use” it has? Illogical or what?
    “Guys, I’ve created you as immortal beings …. However, those dormant and undeveloped sexual organs in the middle of your bodies (that other animals need to use to propagate their species) you must not use……”
    It is getting more hilariously interesting !! God gives something and say not to use it, just like the “free” will. Why the hell were “those dormant and undeveloped sexual organs”, which were designed for other animals to use to propagate their species, incorporated in the “immortal” human body, which was allegedly quite capable of propagating just by wishing? Quite baffling ! Was god lazy to design a different organ? More illogically, corresponding female animal reproductive organs were also incorporated, without any alterations, in the woman’s body !! Two silly mistakes by an omniscient god! OR, was there a more sinister agenda? Use your “god” given brain to figure it out !

    “God’s laws make sure that order is preserved at all levels, and they exist for our own protection. “
    Really? Starting from Lucifer, and by millions of humans today, god’s laws are flouted. God himself had to intervene twice using diametrically opposite methods in order to “preserve the order” First, a massacre of biblical proportions of ALL humans except most trusted Noah and family. The innocent animals were not spared either ! Yet the “original sin” prevailed.
    Next his own “son” was sent to “absorb” all the sins of humans. Another miserable failure !
    “Tell me, if God created you as an immortal being, living in an unbroken stream of joy and ever-new bliss, how could you ever know sorrow? How could you know what death is, or what evil is if you are anchored in God who is eternal love”
    What is the big idea of knowing sorrow, death, evil etc if you are “created as an immortal being, living in an unbroken stream of joy and ever-new bliss,” ? It surely appears that god’s intention was to FORCIBLY make humans experience sorrow, death, evil etc !
    I haven’t the foggiest idea who would like to “escape Love” when you are constantly living in it and surrounded by it !
    “Satan is misusing the free will God gave everybody to wreck havoc in peoples lives and then point the finger of blame on God and other people.”
    So what in the Universe or beyond, is preventing the all powerful creator to eliminate this ETERNAL EVIL , instead of the entire humanity, and of course the innocent animals who weren’t given any free will ? Are humans so dumb, not to realise that all these questions (and many more !) points toward ONLY ONE POSSIBLE answer – that there is ABSOLUTELY NO god exist or existed, except in their own ignorant imaginations?

    • Father God, give J eyes that see and ears that hear in the name of Jesus.

      • Superior to that, EVOLUTION gives me the brain to analyse what I hear and see, in order to come to the CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of the REALITY, and to REJECT THE DELUSIONS.

    • “Science studies phenomena and everything outside of time and space is unreachable to science. God, by definition is outside of time and space; God is the Noumenon which creates phenomena.”

      “”In the absence of reliable evidence that there is anything outside time, space and matter/energy, it is only an imaginary assumption by ignorant humans that there is a god.””

      What if scientists do have access and reliable evidence there is something outside common perception of space and time yet religion is having hard time to accept it for fears that religion might need major upgrade again. (Remember our Earth in the centre of the universe story).

  29. Religion:
    – the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods (Oxford dictionary).

    Faith:
    – complete trust or confidence in someone or something (Oxford dictionary).

    Religion and Faith are two different things. Religious people focus on the Power and what they could get from God, while faith-filled people focus on the Love and what they could give to God. Religious people say they love God, but they don’t show it; faithful people show their love for God, but they don’t say it.

    So, what kind of an “upgrade” are you talking about, and what is the new scientific evidence and why would it create a problem for Faith and the Bible? In other words, Bible was not rewritten after science discovered that earth is round and circles around the sun.

  30. I believe we are trying to gain some knowledge from religion and faith here.
    It was a good idea of yours to look into Oxford dictionary to avoid misunderstanding. Therefore, knowledge is “facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education ……. Philosophy true, justified belief; certain understanding, as opposed to opinion”

    The upgrade I am talking about is different interpretation of the Bible as you suggested in some part, for example, regarding different duration of God’s day and Earth’s day.
    There is a real possibility that extensive reinterpretation of the Bible would render some or to many of the original text “invisible” and that is the problem for religion and faith based on Bible!
    As for Earth not in the centre of the universe, church says it is compatible with the Bible. (perhaps some reinterpretation took place)

    I do not think new science is needed for a start, existing well proven part would suffice for quality discussion, but funny, science might need some reinterpretation as well making the unpleasant problems for scientists also.

    Finally, who is going to love us if we continue to search for knowledge causing problems in the process? Anyone to help with some diplomacy here?

    • Basically, you are talking about upgrades to the theology, which is “the study of the nature of God and religious belief”. I agree that theology changes as people grow in knowledge and their relationship with God. However, Bible stays the same and it is also used for validating any new theology.

      If I would want to describe the Bible with one scientific word, it would be the word “axiom“; “a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true”.

      I’m not sure if diplomacy could apply here. Sincere investigation requires digging deep without discarding any evidence. There are increasing reports of miracles happening around the world, like this one.

      The role of science in my mind is to stop being biased towards atheism and sincerely investigate the “God does exist” premise.

      For example, if matter creates thoughts and emotions, which part of this lady’s body worked out her healing? What about thousands of other cases, or people being raised from the dead (which you can find reports of if you are diligent enough)? Dead matter stays dead, unless God resurrects it.

      I say you need to take a side. You need to pursue truth no matter what will other people say. And truth will lead you to God.

  31. “The role of science in my mind is to stop being biased towards atheism and sincerely investigate the “God does exist” premise.”

    I think I am ready to do that and I am looking for an open minded believer that is ready to sincerely investigate the “God does not exist” premise.

    Are you ready ??

    • Sure. Let’s open a new page for this discussion and continue to comment on that page.

      Father God, bless this discussion so that it is made profitable to all that choose to participate or read. Give us the eyes that see and ears that hear, in the name of Jesus.


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